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barbara
11-13-2007, 11:37 AM
Harv - I am curious about how you will monitor your progress. I realize common sense will tell you if you are feeling better, just like with my COPD, but will you also have tests to determine your progress. Do you have a doctor where you live that will monitor you at all? Was he in agreement with your desire to have stem cell therapy? I know a lot of the answers for COPD, but I am in the dark about cardiac stem cell therapy and how one determines if stem cell treatment is even right for you. Are there some heart conditions that would not benefit from stem cells? Are you a Pioneer that really doesn't have an answer to this or one like me that had used up all conventional means of getting well except for a transplant and decided why not try stem cells? I would just like to know more about how and when you think you will know if your stem cell treatment is working. You can tell me I'm too nosy, but I am sure others with cardiac problems and those that have just a general interest in stem cell therapy would be interested too.

barbara
11-14-2007, 12:15 PM
Harv - Were you given any post stem cell protocols such as special diet or supplements that you should take? This seems to vary from clinic to clinic and I wanted to ask you if any instructions had been given to you. I will also ask the question of the doctor from X-cell Center that will be doing the Ask the Doctor forum next month in case it varies depending on what disease you are treated for, but you are in the best position to answer this question for me now. As you know, patients that go to SCB are given a diet and supplement regimen they are asked to maintain for at least 6 months post therapy. It isn't as strict as some clinics such as Dr. Ramirez', but it is far more strict than Dr. Fernandez'. There is always a lot of moaning and groaning going on when it comes to any diet restrictions, especially when someone is asked to give up their favorite foods. I followed the regimen I was given because I paid good money for my treatment and didn't want to play doctor, but truthfully, I am not sure if the concensus in the stem cell community supports dietary restrictions and supplement regimens or if this is still something that truly isn't known yet.

mithras
12-20-2007, 04:32 AM
Well Hello all!

I haven't had much time to read through this set of posts but will work my way through. I am intensely interested in results and things people do to maintain results.

I am just back from Bangkok where I worked with Thera Vitae and Dr Supachai and his team!

My cardiac issues are complicated by something called metabolic syndrome or insulin resistance- which seems to be the flip side of diabetes. My family has a history of heart disease and diabetes. I have heart disease and insulin resistance - You can glue me to a diabetic because I produce 3 times the insulin as a normal person!!

At any rate, before treatment I couldnt walk for more than a 100 yards without angina. I could climb about 2 flights of stairs ok but had not much pep. I found Thera Vitae and followed them for 3 years knowing i had no other options- before finally going to get treated. I was watching the clinical trials in the US- but they are 10 years from going public. I didn't klnow there were groups like thes and am grateful for finding it- Thank you Marcia!

I had the treament last week on Tuesday. On Thursday, I actually climbed The Golden Mount- supposedly where Buddha's ashes are kept- a total of more than 350 steps straight up a mountain- with no pain, no shortness of breath and total amazement. After about step 20 I was literally waiting for the pain to hit or something- and nothing happend at all. AMAZING! I hadnt been able to do something like that for at least 15 years.

When we left Bangkok- I actually walked the whole length of the new airport with wife in tow to get to my plane- and this time she was huffing and puffing! That was like 1/2 - 3/4 of a mile of corridors.

Ok so far so good- but now i found another product I am starting to take for maintenance that releases stem cells from the bone marrow to the blood stream. I got injected with 23 million stem cells at TheraVitae. This other product triggers the release of from 1-4 million stem cells. I will let people know how it works.

I don't want to commercialize this space so if people want to know about it - just send me a private note and ill tell you more. rpk@bandk.com

Meanwhile i wrote a blog while in Bangkok and am continuing to add to it.

You can find it if you like at http://thai-heart.blogspot.com/

In Health and gratitude
Richard

hlichten
12-20-2007, 11:18 AM
Well Hello all!

I haven't had much time to read through this set of posts but will work my way through. I am intensely interested in results and things people do to maintain results.

I am just back from Bangkok where I worked with Thera Vitae and Dr Supachai and his team!

My cardiac issues are complicated by something called metabolic syndrome or insulin resistance- which seems to be the flip side of diabetes. My family has a history of heart disease and diabetes. I have heart disease and insulin resistance - You can glue me to a diabetic because I produce 3 times the insulin as a normal person!!

At any rate, before treatment I couldnt walk for more than a 100 yards without angina. I could climb about 2 flights of stairs ok but had not much pep. I found Thera Vitae and followed them for 3 years knowing i had no other options- before finally going to get treated. I was watching the clinical trials in the US- but they are 10 years from going public. I didn't klnow there were groups like thes and am grateful for finding it- Thank you Marcia!

I had the treament last week on Tuesday. On Thursday, I actually climbed The Golden Mount- supposedly where Buddha's ashes are kept- a total of more than 350 steps straight up a mountain- with no pain, no shortness of breath and total amazement. After about step 20 I was literally waiting for the pain to hit or something- and nothing happend at all. AMAZING! I hadnt been able to do something like that for at least 15 years.

When we left Bangkok- I actually walked the whole length of the new airport with wife in tow to get to my plane- and this time she was huffing and puffing! That was like 1/2 - 3/4 of a mile of corridors.

Ok so far so good- but now i found another product I am starting to take for maintenance that releases stem cells from the bone marrow to the blood stream. I got injected with 23 million stem cells at TheraVitae. This other product triggers the release of from 1-4 million stem cells. I will let people know how it works.

I don't want to commercialize this space so if people want to know about it - just send me a private note and ill tell you more. rpk@bandk.com

Meanwhile i wrote a blog while in Bangkok and am continuing to add to it.

You can find it if you like at http://thai-heart.blogspot.com/

In Health and gratitude
Richard

You may not like the sound of my reply to you, so I will apologize in advance:

First off, I got your PM, and no, you can not sell StemEnhance here on this forum. StemEnhance is already a forum sponsor.

Secondly, as to your climbing 350 stairs straight up 2 days after having treatment without angina, I am sorry, but I have problems with that. Everyone is different, some people just want to feel better, so mind over body is very powerful. Some people want to feel better after paying lots of money for treatment. In the case of Theravitae, that is a REAL lot of money!
However, stem cells can't "do their thing" in 2 days. It is a cellular treatment, on the microscopic level. It takes time.

If you REALLY saw this much improvement, then I am happy for you and hope you live a healthy life to the age of 120.

I did not enjoy Theravitae, and you can read of my experience with them here. Not the complete story, but good for starters:
http://stemcellpioneers.com/showthread.php?t=57

Every Theravitae "success story" is like a short Hollywood movie. A patient has therapy, then goes surfing, etc. Every patient has a story. Sorry, it is just too made-up for me.

MOST DISTURBING TO ME was reading your blog:
http://thai-heart.blogspot.com/
It has pictures and some nice info on Bangkok that I was already aware of, but there seems to be an underlying theme of negativity toward the Thai people. I am not Thai, and don't even know any Thai people well, but you go on and on about how the vendors are trying to con tourists out of their money, how the taxi drivers get a percent of the take, etc.
I have been to Bangkok, and seen some people sleeping in their "homes" which are carved out of mud in the side of a hill. At the hotel I stayed at I was told that the average hotel employee below management was paid far less than $1 US per hour, then forced to work a huge number of hours per week.
Yes, I got in a cab and had the driver try to keep from turning on the meter.
Yes, I had a few people try to take advantage of me, but I am not a fool.
Everyone there welcomed US dollars, so I almost never paid in Baht, and always rounded up to the next higher dollar or two. Big deal. They are some of the friendliest people I have ever met, and they always greet you and bow their heads to you as they see you. Very sweet and polite!
These are very, very poor people in a very poor country. Can you blame them for trying to make a little bit of money?

mithras
12-20-2007, 12:56 PM
Hi again,
Well Im sorry you didn't get the kind of boost from the process that you wanted, but I know where i was before hand having had back pain angina for at least 15-20 years upon mild effort, having had a 4 way bypass in 1997, having two of the grafts close up on me, having had a heart attack in 2006 that required a stent, and another one in October of this year that required 2 stents. and then having no pain at all 3 days after the procedure. You can choose not to believe in miracles- I didn't - but one seems to have happened to me. I personally don't care if anyone believes me - I am telling people my experiences for their own evaluation. Everyone's mileage varies, but the people that know me and who see me now notice a remarkable difference in only a week. That's all I really care about, and if what happened to me can help someone else then that is what I care about.
Remember TheraVitae guarantees nothing -no one does- and says they have success in about 75-80% of he cases. I am truly sorry yours was not one of them.

I am a bit concerned about your thinking though- which doesn't allow for things like this in your universe. I know where I was and i know where I am and the difference is night and day. My angina had to be controlled with nitro and now i don't have it so I am not attributing that to the plane flight or because its Thursday, but to the procedure that was done on me.

I have spent 38 years in the fields of psyche-soma interaction and i think i know the difference.

Second- I said specifically that I do not want to commercialize the space and that i hadn't read too much of it yet, but was excited enough about the possibilities of the product that I wanted to let people know if they were interested. If everyone on this list knows about stem enhance then more power to you- enjoy and god bless.

Third i read your experience with TheraVitae, and your experience and mine are 180 degrees out of phase. I had none of the issues you had, and yes i had to stay in he hospital an extra day for each of the sessions for tests etc- but i got to know the staff, and got to feel comfortable about the treatment i was being given rather than being rushed in and treated BY robots and rushed out. I can get that kind of robotic medicine in the United states I don't need it from other countries. I found most of their staff spoke english well enough to carry on conversations, handle inqiries etc. I chose to stay on a few days at my own expense because I wanted to make sure nothing untoward happened and I was well enough to travel. My cardiologists aren't even interested enough in talking to them so you are perhaps luckier that yours care.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time there and rested and relaxed and sight saw( is that a word?) saw the sights and got treated. I feel it was expensive but not a rip off in any sense of the word. Compared to having one day in a US hospital cost me close to $80,000- this was not that bad.

The whole wiring of money etc was a bit off putting- but I suppose enough people doing strange things with money caused them to put some rules in place. I would be interested in hearing from people who worked with the German and Mexican groups that do this.

Fourth, I think you need to take a chill pill with regard to your opinion of my opinion of Thai people. My opinion is based on the simple fact that you will get taken to specific jewelry shops where you will get shown shiny crap. It happens in Thailand, It happens in India, it happens in Singapore, It happens in China, and he taxi drivers get paid 30% of everything you buy and they get gas chits. The fact that it is of poor quality is simply what is so. As with everything Buyer beware.

My opinion about any Thai was not in evidence- but will be. I found everyone to be warm and welcoming and enjoyable. I found the merchants- of whatever race creed, political or moral persuasion in all countries to be somewhat less than honest to tourists until you get to know a few. In fact a thai guy stopped me on the street to Jim Thompson's house and we struck up a conversation. We will be visiting when he comes over here in January. He in fact is the one that told me that everything that these places was selling was crap. When I got to look myself - I agreed. So when one of the people that lives there warns you and you agree- that is not a diatribe against thai people.

Yes the people for the most part are poor - but when you hear the poor me story from everyone you talk to and see the hand out for help all the time- it gets a bit wearing. I help the ones want to and the others have to find other people to help them. I went to the head master of Wat Po school and offered to help some of his massage therapists if they chose to come to the US.

I spent 5 years traveling and working in India, and the situation there is no different. The people are all good intentioned, and they all have their hand out. Is that a comment on them that they would ask for help or a comment on me that they think i can help? I don't know and i don't fault them for it just like i don't fault all the people around here with 'will work for food" signs- who won't. The simple fact is everyone had their hand out when i was walking the streets. If I find dishonest salesmen and establishments here- I put it on angies list or similar ratings list. The average tourist doesn't have the luxury of having an angies list for Bangkok and i was fortunate in finding one guy i struck up a friendship with who advised me- and it appeared it was accurate.

I don't blame anyone for trying to earn a little money. I do care if they simply try to steal it or con you out of it or intimidate you into giving it to them - even if they are sophisticated about the methods- including enron, including stock brokers who churn accounts and yes taxi drivers who won't turn on the meter. I had one who tried to triple charge me for a short drive and wouldn't turn on the meter - IE for a 35 baht drive he wanted to charge me 100 baht off the meter . I made a point of going to the next driver in line and gave him 500 baht to do the same drive after he agreed to turn on the meter. I made sure the first driver saw that. I care about integrity and honesty and the first driver didn't have it . The king there is constantly imploring his people to live with honesty and integrity and most of them do and I applaud the king and what he has done for this country. if only we had politicians one tenth his stripe.

Finally, After rereading your experiences- I am struck how with a simple change of heart or mind I could have had all the same experiences you did, with all the same negative interpretations. I did have many of the same things happen, but interpreted them so much more positively for myself than you did for you. For that I am sorry that you had the misfortune of that frame of mind and hope you can find something more positive in the things that you choose and do that outweigh the inconveniences and annoyances.

I would offer you the notion that your psyche-soma connection might be affecting the filter you use to see the world- just the way mine does mine and everyone else's does there world view. Mine isn't necessarily rosy, but I have spent enough years seeing the downside that I have learned that when i look for the upside i can usually find some part of it, and continue to find more of it and continue to see more of it until the experience transforms me in a positive way and I like it that way.
In health and gratitude
RIchard

hlichten
12-20-2007, 02:34 PM
Let's simply say that we disagree about some of this and move on.
I did somewhat attack you, so retaliation is fair game.

However, I absolutely refuse to be psychoanalyzed by you or anyone.
My "psyche-soma connection" is, to the best of my knowledge in serviceable condition.
Reading someone's typed words on a newsgroup does not provide a portal to their true soul.

I will take that "chill pill" (provided that you pay the shipping charges :))
and welcome you to the forum.

barbara
12-20-2007, 05:49 PM
I am not of the same view as Richard when it comes to the people of Thailand. I really didn't find many of them with their hand out. I enjoyed 10 days there and would return in a heartbeat. Touring aside, the question about wiring money was mentioned. Of course, it is with great trepidation that any of us wires off a fairly hefty sum of money to a company we really don't know much about. You can also understand the company's viewpoint if you have ever been in business for yourself. Relying on people bringing money with them or paying by personal check would be professional suicide. Writing checks and then stopping payment on them is illegal where I live, but try to prosecute and you will find police that are too busy and people you can sue if you can find them and they still have some assets, otherwise you are out your money. This puts me on the side of the company, having owned several small businesses. It also makes me tell people, that they must thoroughly investigate any company that asks for a large sum of money to be wired to an account. One way to do this is by reading forums such as this one. When Jeannine and I went, the Pioneer group busily checked on any and everything that could be found on the company where we went. This included sending someone to visit the office of the company, BBB, Chamber of Commerce, anything that could be found and yet we still had to assume a risk because we knew of no one that had been there. Now, we have this forum and I hope it helps others. That is one of the purposes of it.

hlichten
12-20-2007, 06:07 PM
I agree with Barbara about the wire transfer need. In my now old post, where I mentioned my remorse for wiring the money to Theravitae, it was not wiring the money that was my mistake, it was wiring money when my primary questions about my treatment had not been answered. Again, this was due to Theravitae pressuring me to get the money sent to them.

I have wired money for other purposes, and had money wired to me in the past, and never had an issue.

Again, in agreement with her - a clinic may need the money to have supplies, personnel and other things on the ready, especially in the case of cord blood, where they often purchase it in advance of your arrival.

barbara
01-13-2008, 12:08 AM
Richard - Are you still doing well? You are over the one month mark at this point.
Did you get any post stem cell protocols to follow such as diet and exercise? I would be interested to know what they are if you did. Thanks.

mithras
01-13-2008, 12:17 AM
Its been a while since i checked in-- but here is my one month report as of 1/10/2008

I noticed an interesting thing- most of the doctors were first of all focused on- was I depressed, did i feel hopeful, what was my out look like before they delved into the technicalities.

When I asked one of them why - they said that one of the key things they look for in heart attack patients and any kind of heart repair patients was their mental and emotional out look as a KEY indicator and prognostic tool.

I spent a lot of time looking up information on that but do not have enough to share yet.

So today my resting blood pressure is 109/72 with medication- but in past was largely uncontrolled running around 165/85- even wit hmedication

I walked for 2.5 miles at a decent clip- something I have not done in 10-15 years. The dogs were even dragging at places ( OK one old dog)

I noticed how de-conditioned I am with mostly my feet, knees and lower back complaining- but not my heart.

I am having a hard time having my local doctors taking me seriously about doing more advanced testing. Perhaps they don't want to acknowledge any results. Have other people had issues with their stateside doctors?

I have put myself on a regimen of supplements since i got home as follows for those that are interested:

1. 4 scoops of ascorcine9 per day
2 an additional 4-8 grams of Vitamin C per day
3. Antioxidants- Ciaga- 2 ounces a day
4. CoQ10 .5-1 gram a day
5. Red Rice yeast 2-4 gel caps a day
6. vitamin D 50,000 units once a week ( prescription)
7. Fish Oil 1200 mg of mixed per day
8. Barley Enzymes - 2 caps per meal
9 Avena enzymes 8 per meal
10 Stemtech 2 capsules 2 times a day after mild exercise

11 All the bazillion pills my doctor prescribes.

Take Care
Richard

barbara
01-13-2008, 11:18 AM
I think you may have hit the nail on the head when you say that perhaps your doctors don't want to give you more advanced tests because they don't want to acknowledge that what you had done may have worked. Otherwise, I have never known a doctor that didn't want me to take tons of tests and meds! I am also glad that you have come clean that it is one old dog you are dragging around. When I first read that you were out running your dogs, I imagined sleek greyhounds! HA It is very encouraging that you are out walking anything in my opinion. Your supplement regimen sounds interesting. What do you mean by mixed when you talk about fish oil? I also take fish oil. Thanks for giving us an update. The rest of your body should catch up to your heart if you continue with healthy eating, supplements and exercise I would think.

I also believe that much of our healing is mental. You can certainly help yourself by believing that your treatment will help you. A good frame of mind before and after therapy is a must.

mithras
01-13-2008, 01:34 PM
HAHA- not running my dogs walking them at a reasonable pace - around 2 miles an hour or so-- but I'm still way de-conditioned.
I use Nordic Naturals fish oils 1000 mg a day mixed 3 6 9 one cap and Nordic Naturals Ultimate 1 cap

Following is a list of all companies who refine fish oils and if they do it right to remove impurities.

http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=fishoil
Cheers
Richard

hlichten
01-13-2008, 02:01 PM
...I noticed an interesting thing- most of the doctors were first of all focused on- was I depressed, did i feel hopeful, what was my out look like before they delved into the technicalities.

When I asked one of them why - they said that one of the key things they look for in heart attack patients and any kind of heart repair patients was their mental and emotional out look as a KEY indicator and prognostic tool.

Doctors will often prescribe anti-depressants in many cases after heart surgery for this reason. Good medicine to avoid!

barbara
01-13-2008, 09:55 PM
That is really horrible. I cannot believe that anti-depressants would be a good idea at all. There are natural remedies for depression. My mom suffers from it and her doctor was forever trying to get her to take tons of meds. I have taken her off of everything except a few natural supplements and her thinking is much more clear and she is happier. I think there is too much of these types of meds being used. I use tapes that help with my mental outlook and also tapes to reduce stress and they are better than prescription meds any day.



Thank you Richard for your fish oil chart. I found it very informative.

mithras
01-13-2008, 11:00 PM
Another interesting thing is that any of the statins tend to destroy CoQ10 which has a big part to play in rebuilding heart muscle. Further most of the statins were found as a natural part of red rice yeast. EG lovastatin is a naturally occurring part of red rice yeast. The interesting piece is Red rice yeast has several statins in it- and hence might be better because of its mix than any single one. But remember to take coQ10 with it.

I am annoyed and dismayed at the state of medicine. I have to constantly argue with new doctors over what they just repeat by rote. IE they all tell me its necessary to eliminate dietary cholesterol. Why I ask? Show me the link between dietary cholesterol and serum LDL-s they cant. And they think they are being "scientific" when all they do is parrot what drug companies tell them to.

I think people definitely have to take a hand in their own survival- if you put it in doctor's hands solely you ill be in for a big, and possibly nasty surprise.
R

barbara
01-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Richard, I couldn't agree with you more. I think not only are we stem cell Pioneers, we are also a pioneering group that is fed up with the conventional textbook treatment and drug saturation. I have never been offered so many drugs in my life. I just got over a 2 week strange bout of shortness of breath. I was fearful to go to my doctor because I knew I would be given an X-ray, prednisone, antibiotics and who knows what else. Since, my stem cell transplant, I have felt healthier and I did what I could at home and I am feeling much better. I didn't let whatever I had get out of hand, but I didn't run off to the doctor's office at the first little sign of breathlessness. We walk a fine line, but most of us are learning what really helps and what simply masks or temporarily makes me feel better which is what I have been getting from the medical profession for the last 10 years. I think the rice you talk about is a good example of something that can help and yet isn't it what the FDA has banned? Undoubtedly, because it isn't something the pharmaceutical industry profits from. As far as cholesterol, my chiropractor, who is also into natural medicine would agree with what you have said. He says we have been brainwashed to believe otherwise. He also preaches a very natural healthy diet and the man looks terrific and acts years younger than he is.

mithras
01-14-2008, 12:22 AM
I believe if you look closely - the reason the FDA banned it as a nutraceutical was because lo and behold some one discovered the reason it worked on LDL cholesterol so well was that it had all these statins in it - and statins are a controlled substance. Mevacor or lovastatin is a natural substance isolated from a strain of the fungal microorganism Aspergillus terreus- found in red rice yeast. In 1998, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) placed a ban on the sale of dietary supplements derived from red yeast rice, which naturally contains lovastatin, arguing that products containing prescription agents require drug approval.

They should also put a ban on oyster mushrooms which also contain a lot of mixed statins.

Another example is white willow bark or myrtle leaves which contain salycylic acid ( an aspirin precursor) . Fortunately aspirin is not a prescription drug, but if it were- then white willow bark would be proscribed. the natural elements have a history at least back to the Egyptians in maybe 2000 BC (myrtle leaves) and 200 BC Hippocrates using willow bark, and then Greek surgeons all the way into the new world where native Americans used birch and willow bark because of the analgesic effects.

Yet to read the history of aspirin you wold think that it was all dependent on a bunch of chemists and ultimately Bayer to find the answer.

To show you how "dumb" the Europeans were - during the middle ages they banned the use of willow medicinally because the willow crop was slated to be used for making wicker work. I guess you could always suck on your chair.

And so it goes.
Richard

barbara
01-14-2008, 11:16 AM
Very interesting Richard. Thanks for posting it. I think if someone told the FDA about the mushrooms, they would try to ban them also! I shudder at the thought of the idea that the FDA wants to control the vitamin/supplement industry. We will all be very sorry if this happens. There are certain things that the FDA should be doing and certain things they should most definitely not be doing. Banning natural foods is certainly not one of them.