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Buddy74
03-11-2009, 03:46 PM
I think this is a wonderful site. There is a lot of knowledge and information particular from the founders of this site.
I had read an article in a Naples Florida newspaper about Dr. Zanno Grekos who is a fairly well known cardiologist in Naples, close to where I live. I note that he he was on one your "ask the doctor" segments. From what I understand Dr. Grekos, among other things is the Chief Medical Officer for Regenocyte Therapeutic and is essentially an agent for TheraVitae. Due to the fact that stem cell therapy in the U.S. is some years away Dr. Grekos can apparently be of assistance in helping you with one's stem cell decisons and related medical areas. However, all roads lead to Bangkok! I note that the TheraVitae website offers "Volunteers", who have had the stem cell experience, as a communication liason. Most of the stories I have read about their conditions and resurrection are almost too good to be true although the medical facility I utilize to handle my heart problem ("Ischemic Cardiomyopathy") do have a patient who has been to Bangkok and I am told his results are quite remarkable.
It appears that almost all the discussion on this site relating to and indeed on TheraVitae's web site are quite out-dated. I wonder if there has been any up dating on TheraVitae, I understand that over 150 Americans have had the Bangkok procedure done with 80% positive results. I am not necessarily looking for longevity to my life but a much better quality of live than I now have. Thank you!

barbara
03-11-2009, 05:05 PM
Buddy - Most of the members that have been to see Dr. Grekos have had treatment in the Dominican Republic. Not all stories are fabulous success stories with Theravitae, but they market the company well and have had some patients that seem to have done quite nicely. I know there are some on here that have been to Theravitae in Bangkok. Perhaps, one of them will respond.
Thank you for your kind comments about the forum.

hlichten
03-11-2009, 09:10 PM
OK, where do I begin?
I have acute ischemic heart disease.
I have had the Theravitae treatment in Bangkok in 2007.
Dr. Zannos Grekkos does not treat there, as Barbara said.
He uses the Theravitae lab in Israel for blood processing as do the doctors in Bangkok. He is, in effect, their USA rep.
As for the "article in a Naples Florida newspaper about Dr. Zanno Grekos" that you read, these "articles" are usually not things that a newspaper reporter writes, they are paid advertising (paid for by Dr. Grekkos) that are made to look like articles. Usually, in fine print somewhere, it will say that the story was really a paid advertisement.
As for the "volunteers" that spout the merits of Theravitae, yes, they are too good to be true. I have always believed that Theravitae pays these people to be "volunteers".
Regarding 80% success rate, forget it. No way, no how.
As for "over 150 Americans treated", Theravitae claimed over 150 Americans treated back in late 2006 before I went there. Why don't they update that number 2 1/2 years later? Does 150 just sound good, or are they too lazy to update their media package?
Theravitae has stories about cardiac patients who get treatment and then climb mountains, scuba dive and surf very soon thereafter. Again, red flags.
Their patients are always listed by their "real names" and "articles" (yes, the same kind) get published in various family-type magazines. "Joe Smith is enjoying hand-gliding after cardiac treatment"....that kind of stuff.
I was too much wanting to be helped to see all the red flags going into treatment, and some of them I only fully realized afterward, but I don't believe that anything they did helped me at all. So, wow! I must be part of that 20% that they couldn't help! What a concept.
The total Bangkok experience is too detailed to go into in a short post like this, but be prepared for something very different! As for the Theravitae lab in Israel, they may (or may not) be quite good. We have no way to know.

You see...
There are no real, verifiable success-rate statistics for stem cell clinics.
Basically, they release (or make up) their own success rates.
However, when you hear stuff about 80% or 100%, they have then gone too far with their exaggerations. 50% improvement rate from one treatment would be huge.

I have had several stem cell treatments since then at a clinic that I trust more.

If you are unlikely to live many more years, and have money, then get an autologous treatment (or two or three) using marrow (which Theravitae does not use) or peripheral blood like they use. Keep in mind that they (and Grekkos) are among the most expensive in the world ($35,000 to $50,000 per treatment). Forget about the "extras" that they include, transportation, lodging, etc. which is all low-end. I ended up upgrading everything they included.

You can get an autologous treatment for 3 to 10 times less money, or even less money, depending on where you go.

Barbara can provide you with clinics using marrow for IV and/or direct cardiac injection.

Then, toss all the "statistics" into the trash, get your treatments, and see if you feel any better in 3-6 months. That's all that you can do.

If you are likely to live 5-10 years or more and are in USA or another western country, hang on, because real research is on the horizon.

I hope this helps you.

Judy3
03-11-2009, 10:08 PM
I don't know where you are getting all your information but I had an adult stem cell infusion by Dr. Grekos in Oct. 2008. You see I have IPF which is a fatal disease and I was happy to pay Dr. Grekos for my treatment. I looked at all the treatments out there and decided this was the best for me. Dr. did not promise me a 80% or 100% cure. I was told that we may be able to stableize my disease, of which sounded good to me. Much better than being dead. After my treatment with Dr. Grekos I had the first improved pulmonary function test that I have had in 10 years.
I am not paid by theravite or Regenocyte or anyone else. I am just a retired RN that is happy with what she got in the Dominican Republic with Dr. Grekos and regenocyte.


Judy

barbara
03-12-2009, 11:07 AM
Hi Judy - I know you are pleased with your treatment. I have not seen that Dr. Grekos has been working with anyone in Bangkok. He used to, but I am not sure now if there is a connection except that he uses the lab in Israel. One thing that Harv points out that is true is that many articles that appear in the news are press releases. I sometimes move threads that are posted on this forum into that category because that's where they belong. There is nothing wrong with a press release and lots of companies use them. It is just that a person needs to realize that's what it is. I believe that Dr. Grekos is doing a good job treating those with terminal lung conditions especially. May you continue to improve!

Buddy74
03-12-2009, 01:48 PM
Thank you Harv, Barbara and Judy for your informative replies. This is truly a very special web site for those of us who share some special life altering conditions and who desire qualified information from people who have "been there" and who have acquired relevant information that can aid in our decision making.
Barbara, I would greatly appreciate your submitting to me those clinics using Marrow for IV/or direct cardiac injection.
Thank you.
Buddy

barbara
03-12-2009, 04:13 PM
I will send them to you Buddy.

danny
03-12-2009, 05:49 PM
I agree with everything everyone posted. Some people prob see great results and others get moderate or no results.

Buddy74
03-12-2009, 06:55 PM
Danny: You make a good point; however, it is my experience in dealing with some fine doctors that they are loathe to get involved in discussions outside the realm of practical medicine. As in life one must at times take matters into their own hands in seeking and sorting out the best information available which is helpful in the decision making process, particularly when it involves the quality of life for you or a loved one. When it comes to the process of stem cell usage it is a difficult road. But the more you explore the wiser you become and of course you have to be careful with what your research yields. At some point one's condition may be a prime factor in making a tough decision but a decision will have to be made. It may be a decision to do nothing. I have found during my years as a Naval Aviator that risk was always a factor every time you sat in that cockpit. I have also found that sometimes to do nothing is the wrong decision. I am grateful to the people who put this web site together!
Buddy

hlichten
03-12-2009, 09:12 PM
I don't know where you are getting all your information but I had an adult stem cell infusion by Dr. Grekos in Oct. 2008. You see I have IPF which is a fatal disease and I was happy to pay Dr. Grekos for my treatment. I looked at all the treatments out there and decided this was the best for me. Dr. did not promise me a 80% or 100% cure. I was told that we may be able to stableize my disease, of which sounded good to me. Much better than being dead. After my treatment with Dr. Grekos I had the first improved pulmonary function test that I have had in 10 years.
I am not paid by theravite or Regenocyte or anyone else. I am just a retired RN that is happy with what she got in the Dominican Republic with Dr. Grekos and regenocyte.
Judy

I did not say anywhere that Dr. Grekos quotes 80% (or more) success.
Buddy said it, and I said "Regarding 80% success rate, forget it. No way, no how" as part of my reply.
Nor did I say that you are paid by anyone, nor did I say that Grekos pays anyone. There are simply too many "happy Theravitae patients" willing to share their experiences with new prospective patients. Don Ho (the singer) was their most famous patient. He recently died, but was mentioned in many articles of theirs. One of their patients who has had 4+ treatments for multiple illnesses was mentioned by name in many magazine "articles" (paid for by Theravitae). He came by my hospital room in Bangkok to tell me his story. I asked him politely to leave my room. Why would a patient be making rounds at a hospital in support of their company? My guess was (again) that they paid him to do it.

Here's what I know about Grekos:
When I was in Bangkok, Dr. Grekos was there being showed around by Theravitae's owner. (yes, I know his name.)
For awhile, Grekos was doing the initial blood draws in Naples, then accompanying or meeting his patients in Bangkok.
The blood was sent from Naples to Israel,
then from Israel to Bangkok.
He now still sends the blood to Israel,
but it gets sent back from Israel to Dominican Republic.

That is pretty much all I know about Dr. Grekos, other than my
attempt to contact him from Texas more than a year ago,
which was very, very poorly handled by his staff.

He appears to be part of Theravitae, because there is news about him on their website. However, keep in mind that Theravitae has been known to list doctor's names on their website that denied any association with them.

I question some of the Naples newspaper articles that read like Theravitae press releases, even though a reporter's name is listed.

I am slightly bothered that you question where I get my information. You should re-read my post carefully and then tell me what I say that is not accurate. I stand by what I stated.

I am truly thrilled for you that you are doing better,
and know that you must be also.
This is all that matters.
You do not have to defend your doctor or clinic if you are improving!

I wish you continued better health.

Buddy74
03-14-2009, 02:52 PM
Hi Barbara:
Would you need my e mail address to provide me with the names and locations of the clinics discussed previously?
Bud

barbara
03-14-2009, 04:47 PM
Buddy - I did send you an e-mail via the forum so please check to see if it came through. By the way for anyone wanting to send e-mails or private messages, go to Members List, click on the name of the person you want to send a message to and on the right hand side there is a choice for e-mail or private message. Not everyone allows e-mails, but a private message can be sent to any registered user.

If you don't find it, let me know Buddy.

karl wagner
03-18-2009, 02:33 PM
Harv , the spirit of your posts suck. Where do i start. Lets start with the man saved my life,gave me extra time with my small children and and wife. . He spent four day,s with me in a foreign country.The man is like a brother to me . They did do a press release on me and it went out over the Internet months ago because he has at least temporarily cured a incurable Deasie Pulmonary Hypertension I would say thats news worthy not to mention heeled countless heart patients saved diabetics feet from rotting off and now some Pher's. He is a Cardiologist his specialty is heart enlargement and post infarction repair. I get at least three calls a week from people all over the world that read this press release they are tracking me down to find out more about it .Most of them call me back and thank me for speaking with them and tell me they are feeling much better.A few said they did not . It's only my opinion that most of the ones that got no response were just to far gone. But people at regeocyte have told me that 80 % do get some benefits. Based on the people i have talked to it is true and they are brought back one to three function classes, and every word in the press release about me is true. Barbara posted it on this site somewhere.So i know this personally and if you insinuate I'm not telling the truth i will send my collection people to Texas to slap you around I may come myself since I'm feeling so good.
As for the money I've posted as others have that he's not making a killing. He somehow goes through theravite but is not formally connected to order the specific cell line for the patient It's got to cost more because they are cloning your cells as apposed to no manipulation ( order some cells and stick in your arm IV )in the states. A three story building in Naples Fla could not be cheep plus equipment in his office and the d.r. along with a 20 person payroll and all the other costs that come with owning a company.Oh and additional doctors in th D.R.

Anyway in response to your post " here's what i know about Dr. grekos " i would have to say it's not much.He is the best Dr. I have ever known and the best and most caring Dr. I have ever known. A true visionary And was i payed for the press release ,yes every time someone calls and I'm able to help them, a year ago i was given there years to live and my wife was diagnosed with cancer. we were picking out people to raise our children. I prayed if i lived i would do all i could to help people with ph. And these calls are the only thing i can come up with . So I feel I'm payed heavily.

I'm sorry that additional stem cells did not help your case. I wish i new why.I followed all your post though the procedure.And prayed for you. All of our cases are complex and beyond u.s. medical care but things are changing every day.Stem cells do work for most people degrees very. .All I'm asking is not to be so negitve twards them If all i ever read were your posts i would be dead right know....Karl

Judy3
03-18-2009, 08:47 PM
AMEN Karl

Judy3

hlichten
03-18-2009, 10:15 PM
...if you insinuate I'm not telling the truth i will send my collection people to Texas to slap you around I may come myself since I'm feeling so good...


Karl (and Judy3)...
If you are doing better, I am quite happy for you.
I am happy for anyone getting treatment at any clinic who improves.
Period.
I don't doubt that you are telling the truth.

But...
Could you please VERY QUICKLY state that your threat of violence toward me is some sort of a joke? Immediately, please?

I am a sick man, and don't take kindly to being threatened, nor do I deserve it.

I posted what I know about Grekos, which is little, but far more about Theravitae and Bangkok, since I spent big money to go there. I posted what I am skeptical about, being as honest as possible. Maybe I am wrong, and that would be fine with me.

Also, I requested a call multiple times from Grekos' office, and it took 4 months for them to call me back, and they hadn't read my case history which I had sent. I don't have any idea why that happened.

You are reading far more into my posts than I ever intended to convey.
What may be a red flag for me may not be for others.

Your mileage may vary!

Again, if you are doing well, I wish you the best.

But that you are going to send people to slap me around, and Judy 3 is replying "AMEN" to your post is just not going to cut it for me. I am very sick and don't take kindly to such talk, even if it is a joke. Seriously. I am quite intensely opposed to violence in any form, shape or fashion.

Thank you.

barbara
03-18-2009, 10:21 PM
Whoa everyone - This is an open discussion forum and not a forum where everyone needs to agree with what is posted. Harv is not in the same fan club as Karl and Judy because he got no results. Who can blame him? It was a lot of money to pay out to Theravitae to see zero in improvement I am sure you would all agree. Karl and Judy got good results and therefore are very enthused about their treatment. Who can blame them? I guess the tie between Theravitae and Dr. Grekos is the lab in Israel because I don't think Dr. Grekos is treating anyone in Bangkok. A little sparring on this forum is fine, but threats of sending "collection" people to Texas to slap someone around is too enthusiastic for me. I do hope you were kidding big time Karl as you did finish the sentence saying you might go yourself as you felt so good. This made me think that you were putting some humor into the threat if that is possible. This is a good time to remind people again that there is a difference between peer reviewed journal articles and press releases. I am not one who has been sitting around waiting for these precious articles, but they are the one way that will prove whether or not a treatment is working and to what extent. These studies will come and in the meantime, each of us is free to go wherever we choose to go. We can comment on our treatments on this forum without censorship, but please be considerate of other's viewpoints and absolutely no more threats of any kind as some people will take them the wrong way. It is difficult to know when we are just reading posts if a person is serious or not. There is no voice or body language to give us clues. Keep that in mind when posting. Thank you.

danny
03-19-2009, 06:34 AM
I wish everyone could just get free treatments until somone had documented statstical results showing the treatment works. I was told the treatment had documented results showing this...for any amount of money 10-50K it really should !!!! ...but when I asked to get the info sent to my clinical trial doctor at Emory.. they never replied to me again...

karl wagner
03-19-2009, 02:56 PM
relax harv I was being facetious.But don't think that I'm not extremely insulted and upset and frustrated. One more time , There was a press release about how well i responded to Dr. Grekos's therapy. Basically curing a decease that has no hope no cure it's a horrible slow death ending in right side heart enlargement. O.K. big news in the ph world. emails from ph websites all over the world all day long. People only know my name and the town i live in from the press release and still tract me down at home and on my cell. I'm happy to help any one of them and i tell them all to check out stem cell pioneers .It's all different problems and different places and doctors .So you can make up your own mind where to go.Naturally i tell them where i went and how well i did. So in your post you said me and don Ho were on somebodies payroll ,OK insult me no problem not the first or the last time . Then you say all press releases are made up or overly exagerated..By the way this web site originated as a result of a press release ( two guy's from Argentina ).So now you have killed my credibility. You see a person looking for a glimmer of hope comes to The sight and sees your posts would probably just forget about stem cells . Remember a year ago the guy that got treatment over there and felt so good he climbed a mountain . Then you verbally assaulted him and basically ran him off the site . I'd like to know how he's doing now. I believe he climbed the mountain because after three years of the couch i stayed on the tread mill for an hour and a half. My point is not all press in fictitious.
oK then you run grekos in the ground. You have called me a lier and consider me corrupt and talked bad about someone as close to me as a family member.Now how does the average Texan respond to that.


This probably should have been in a private message but I'm to tired to retype it. Lets just try to look at the picture of getting stem cells further along in the u.s. I said my piece so no hard feelings....karl

barbara
03-19-2009, 04:04 PM
Hi Karl, Thanks for clearing up what you meant. I don't think anyone who has taken the time to research stem cell therapy is going to be swayed against treatment by reading a few posts on this forum. I sure hope not any way! We value all of our members. When a person's health and their money is at stake, every avenue should be visited to make sure they are choosing the clinic or doctor that is right for them. Many will not have a second chance if they spend their money foolishly. Now that I have said that, Dr. Grekos would not have been invited to host the Ask the Doctor forum on this forum nor would he be listed in the Resources section of the book that Jeannine and I wrote in 2007 if we felt he was not a professional in every sense of the word. The discussion does not need to offend anyone and everyone on here is entitled to their opinions. Again, it is natural if treatment has not done you any good to be skeptical and upset. The opposite is true for those that had success. I appreciate that you are asking people to join this forum. I also know what it is like to receive the number of phone calls that you are getting. It is hard to not talk to others that only want to get healthy again. I used to get calls at all hours of the day and night. Jeannine and I were two of the first people in the world to receive umbilical cord stem cell treatment for COPD. This forum was a gift from my son, Darin, who is also an administrator on this forum. Jeannine and I started it because there was no one to turn to after our treatment. We decided to remedy that and the Stem Cell Pioneers was born. I am not sure what site you are referring to with 2 Argentinian men, but this site was started by two determined women who weren't content to let our disease get the best of us. You may be thinking of Nassin. He was our inspiration to seek stem cell therapy. He had treatment with Dr. Fernandez in Argentina, but Nassin lives in the U.S. Keep up the good work and the good mindset. I hope you nor Harv will stress on this any more. Stress is not good for any of us. Let's move past this and continue to spread the word about stem cell therapy and the hope it can give to those with terminal and chronic diseases.

knelsen
03-23-2009, 10:16 AM
Hi everyone: After reading some of the posts last week I just had to let people know how I found out about stem cell treatment. I have severe pulmonary hypertention and was skimming through the PAH Assoiation web site just checking what was going on and this news realease just popped out at me. It was the one on Karl's treatment for PAH! Prior to that news release I had never even heard of adult stem cell treatment. So I started checking on stem cell treatment on the internet, but you all know how many different sites and information there is out there. So finally I got brave enough and, Yes I am one of the many people that hunted poor Karl down and called him! He was so very helpful and directed me to this forum. I am so grateful to him for that! I just want people to know that he is paying for his press release and is very happy to help people out. Thanks Karl!

barbara
03-23-2009, 10:43 AM
I tried to post the information about this forum on the PAH site quite some time ago, but to no avail. I am glad Karl was able to get his post on because you are right, without him we would not know his success story and others he has steered towards this forum and a chance for a better life. I do have one question of those that have had treatment with Dr. Grekos. Since the stem cells are administered through the pulmonary artery and this is rather invasive, I am assuming that the treatment is done in a hospital. Can anyone please tell us which one as I think this is important to know about the facility as well as the doctor. As nasty as Tijuana is, the hospital where I first got treatment was small, but nice. It was in a residential area. Also, what is the situation with oxygen? Do they provide it or do you need to bring your own if needed?

Judy3
03-23-2009, 08:46 PM
My procedure with Dr. Grekos was done in the hospital in Santo Domingo. I think it was the metropolition Hospital. They acted just like we would do in the states. They have Oxygen, sterile procedure (in a special room) and a special nurse to take care of you before and after the procedure. They do it just like a cardiac cath in US. the cheif cardiologist was there along with 4 other Dr's. That excedes what I would expect in the US. I went to the lab earlier in the day for blood work. Was hooked up to an IV prior to the procedure. Being a RN I saw nothing to be concerned about.

Judy3

Had tx in DR Oct.28,2008

barbara
03-23-2009, 09:42 PM
Thanks Judy, for your information. You were probably a lot more observant than I would be seeing that you have a medical background. I have never had a cardiac catheter. Is there any pain involved?

Judy3
03-23-2009, 09:49 PM
No pain. They numbed me first and had no pain.


Judy3

Jeannine
03-24-2009, 02:04 PM
Judy3

How are you doing? How long has it been now since your treatment?

Judy3
03-24-2009, 09:00 PM
I am doing better all the time. Still on Oxygen but the liter flow is back to 2 most of the time. (was up to 6 and 7.) Will get my 6 month check up the 1st of May. Will see DR. May8th.

Will keep u posted. TX for asking


Judy

Buddy74
04-06-2009, 11:38 AM
Hi: I read Karl's post and took the "beat you up" statement as being meant to be tongue in cheek.
Through someone on this web-site who was kind enough to e-mail with information on Dr. Grekos and his procedure I have made contact with Dr. Grekos office and have been to one of his seminars. I have one major factor in my favor in that I live in Ft. Myers Florida a rather short distance from The Bonita Springs and Naples offices of Dr. Grekos and his team. I have spent much time looking at stem cells as a potential help. I have stage three Ischemic Cardiomyopathy and which has impaired my breathing and put me into the "shut-in" category of life. It is a slow death! My ejection fraction is twenty.
My experience so far with Dr. Grekos has been most pleasant to this point. Their Director of Patient Services has been quite responsive and I have submitted all the required hospital and surgical records regarding my condition to them. It is my intention to have the Stem Cell done in Santo Domingo,the Dominican Republic as soon as they set a time and date. I met with Dr. Grekos and the COO of Regoncyte (their company) at a seminar and they were quite forthcoming. I have an appointment with Dr. Grekos on April 15..The cost is quite expensive but time is not on my side and I hope my ultimate results are positive. I believe they will be. My choices are limited. I will keep you informed regarding my procedure and the events that surround it. My thanks to this web-site and my gratitude also to the kind woman who set me on the path to Dr. Grekos and who is a poster on this web site. I wish you all good fortune in your endeavors. You are all pioneers in the true tradition!
Bud

barbara
04-06-2009, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the kind words Buddy. I hope you will continue to let us follow you on your road to wellness. I will be looking forward to more posts from you.

Buddy74
04-14-2009, 02:16 PM
Just as a point of information. Today I went to my pacer clinic to have my implant of last Friday checked out. I have known that a man who is being treated by the same clinic and heart system had a Stem Cell procedure done in Bangkok not too long ago. I had heard that the results were positive and that his EF had moved from 20 to a high of 40 and he was doing well and I am told he was almost euphoric. Unfortunately I heard today that his EF had dropped recently back to 20. Total despair! I remember a clinical study where some individuals in the study were given a lesser dose of stem cells as part of the protocol. Does anyone have an idea why his procedure provided such short term results? It seems to me that possibly not enough stem cells were provided into his heart; however, this is just conjecture these procedures are fairly new, but I wonder if there is an answer? It must be quite difficult for him to go from Joy to Despair. I also understand that another individual who is being treated by Florida Heart Associates doctors its allied pacer clinic has had the procedure done in the Dominican Republic. If so I hope to talk with this individual.
Have a great day, and remember..nothing happens unless you make it happen.

barbara
04-14-2009, 02:57 PM
Buddy - I think this would make a good Ask the Doctor question. I will submit it and in the meantime, maybe you will get some other input.

hlichten
04-15-2009, 09:54 AM
Just as a point of information. Today I went to my pacer clinic to have my implant of last Friday checked out. I have known that a man who is being treated by the same clinic and heart system had a Stem Cell procedure done in Bangkok not too long ago. I had heard that the results were positive and that his EF had moved from 20 to a high of 40 and he was doing well and I am told he was almost euphoric. Unfortunately I heard today that his EF had dropped recently back to 20. Total despair! I remember a clinical study where some individuals in the study were given a lesser dose of stem cells as part of the protocol. Does anyone have an idea why his procedure provided such short term results? It seems to me that possibly not enough stem cells were provided into his heart; however, this is just conjecture these procedures are fairly new, but I wonder if there is an answer? It must be quite difficult for him to go from Joy to Despair. I also understand that another individual who is being treated by Florida Heart Associates doctors its allied pacer clinic has had the procedure done in the Dominican Republic. If so I hope to talk with this individual.
Have a great day, and remember..nothing happens unless you make it happen.

I also think you should submit this to "Ask the Doctor", but I am just curious....
How long was it until this patient saw improvement in his EF, and then how long until it got bad again?

Travel to Dominican Republic is looking really good right now, with all the trouble in Bangkok. I realize this is an issue among the Thai factions, but I would not feel comfortable there right now, even if it calms down.

The Thai are some of the nicest, warmest people I have met in my travels. I realize they mean to be no threat to foreigners, but I had issues getting out of the Bangkok airport when it was fully open, and would not want to experience it during riots or if it gets closed again!

I have chalked up my "run-in" with Karl as a misunderstanding, and, as I do for everyone on this forum, I wish him (and you) the very best. I hope to continue discussion with him that will focus on other issues.

Judy3
04-15-2009, 10:07 AM
I did not mean for you to actually think I would come after you. (where-ever u are located) I have dedicated my life to helping people not hurtingg them. Shall we hug and make up?:D

Judy3

hlichten
04-15-2009, 10:16 AM
I did not mean for you to actually think I would come after you. (where-ever u are located) I have dedicated my life to helping people not hurtingg them. Shall we hug and make up?:D

Judy3


Absolutely! :)

Let's drop it and move on toward treatment legalization
and all the good things that may lie ahead.

clasship
12-15-2009, 01:10 PM
OK, where do I begin?
I have acute ischemic heart disease.
I have had the Theravitae treatment in Bangkok in 2007.
Dr. Zannos Grekkos does not treat there, as Barbara said.
He uses the Theravitae lab in Israel for blood processing as do the doctors in Bangkok. He is, in effect, their USA rep.
As for the "article in a Naples Florida newspaper about Dr. Zanno Grekos" that you read, these "articles" are usually not things that a newspaper reporter writes, they are paid advertising (paid for by Dr. Grekkos) that are made to look like articles. Usually, in fine print somewhere, it will say that the story was really a paid advertisement.
As for the "volunteers" that spout the merits of Theravitae, yes, they are too good to be true. I have always believed that Theravitae pays these people to be "volunteers".
Regarding 80% success rate, forget it. No way, no how.
As for "over 150 Americans treated", Theravitae claimed over 150 Americans treated back in late 2006 before I went there. Why don't they update that number 2 1/2 years later? Does 150 just sound good, or are they too lazy to update their media package?
Theravitae has stories about cardiac patients who get treatment and then climb mountains, scuba dive and surf very soon thereafter. Again, red flags.
Their patients are always listed by their "real names" and "articles" (yes, the same kind) get published in various family-type magazines. "Joe Smith is enjoying hand-gliding after cardiac treatment"....that kind of stuff.
I was too much wanting to be helped to see all the red flags going into treatment, and some of them I only fully realized afterward, but I don't believe that anything they did helped me at all. So, wow! I must be part of that 20% that they couldn't help! What a concept.
The total Bangkok experience is too detailed to go into in a short post like this, but be prepared for something very different! As for the Theravitae lab in Israel, they may (or may not) be quite good. We have no way to know.

You see...
There are no real, verifiable success-rate statistics for stem cell clinics.
Basically, they release (or make up) their own success rates.
However, when you hear stuff about 80% or 100%, they have then gone too far with their exaggerations. 50% improvement rate from one treatment would be huge.

I have had several stem cell treatments since then at a clinic that I trust more.

If you are unlikely to live many more years, and have money, then get an autologous treatment (or two or three) using marrow (which Theravitae does not use) or peripheral blood like they use. Keep in mind that they (and Grekkos) are among the most expensive in the world ($35,000 to $50,000 per treatment). Forget about the "extras" that they include, transportation, lodging, etc. which is all low-end. I ended up upgrading everything they included.

You can get an autologous treatment for 3 to 10 times less money, or even less money, depending on where you go.

Barbara can provide you with clinics using marrow for IV and/or direct cardiac injection.

Then, toss all the "statistics" into the trash, get your treatments, and see if you feel any better in 3-6 months. That's all that you can do.

If you are likely to live 5-10 years or more and are in USA or another western country, hang on, because real research is on the horizon.

I hope this helps you.

I am getting confused (probably because of a stroke) with so much information about where I should go for treatment on my heart. In a nut shell can you recommend a clinic / hospital for stem cell therapy anywhere in the world. I will be moving back to Europe, but I want the best.

clasship
12-16-2009, 03:39 AM
You mention Theravitae which I believe are associated with Vescell who quote $44,990 on their web site for stem cell heart therapy at the Bangkok heart hospital. I contacted the hospital directly and was quoted $20,000 to $30,000. Just goes to show you that despite what a lot is said about costs etc, it can be a total rip off in so many cases. With quotes from $15,000 upwards, how can anyone justify quotes from $15,000 to $44,900 and then $64,000 for essentially the same work! Unless I am being naive, the difference in the main is mainly how the cells are reintroduced into the body. Is there really a justifiable difference between $15,000 and $64,000? As I have already stated, you get a triple by-pass with all that entails for $15,000.

barbara
12-16-2009, 10:57 AM
It may not be quite as simple as how the cells are delivered, but as you are finding out, some clinics are much more profitable than others. On the other hand, do not dismiss pre and post treatment care, delivery (as you already mentioned), the facility where the treatment takes place, the time involved in treatment, the quality of the doctors, hotel and other travel related items that may be included, etc.

As more competition enters the "ring", this will give us more choice. Many doctors and CEO's are working to keep treatment affordable. Seek them out and give them your business. There is no reason that costs are so high at some clinics, other than demand allows them to be that way.